Did God agree to what Lot's daughter did to their father?

Let's look at this thread and see where it connects to where others have been claiming that God agrees with actions of His servants.
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  • And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
  • Genesis 19:30-38New International Version (NIV)

    Lot and His Daughters

    30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”

    33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

    34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

    36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[a]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi[b]; he is the father of the Ammonites[c] of today.
  • So the question is, did God approve of such behavior?
  • The New Testament speaks in a lot of parable and it would think that the Old Testament also. Because if this is real, then it's all f_cked up. No wonder why some priests and wahnparon are sick.
  • When the bible said "God made Adam from the dirt and Eve from his rib cage" it was a metaphor, Adam and Eve were not real people. They were merely symbols and representation used by the ancient people to squeezed a long and big story of genesis into one sizable mythical story.

    Same application with the Serpent, the apple, Eve and later Adam.
    Same application with Lot and his daughters.
    Same application with Maui and his fish hook, wait for MOANA uhuh.
  • You guys think you can fit scripture into your coconut heads. Go home and be happy with what you already know.
  • What did Noah's daughters did to him?
  • Noah, you nasty nigga.
  • Yes i take all that is a big YES! God forbids any act or doing that was never in His plan of creation. But how did it end up with what have been accounted in the bible? I bring this up to justify that the notion or feeling that God approves any act made by His servants that is totally insane. These acts or behavior was born or happened because of choice which God only expect to see that it is wisely used and according to his plan..
  • Hey friends and people, we need to comprehend the topic base on our understanding of the biblical teachings and principles. Bottom line is FAITH....Faith encompasses the notions of big theological terms that are hardly for people to chew on. That's why, for this reason let's refrain from negative presentations of the above mentioned thread which lead us into cantankerous view and misinterpretation of the biblical facts. The meaning of the story is this, in some ways, the incestuous act of the daughters sleeping with their father, can be seen as a “rebirth” of Sodom and Gomorrah. We know that behavior is normalized through repeated exposure so we can assume that living in Sodom must have had a profound effect on Lot and his daughters. Children raised by alcoholics tend to become alcoholics themselves. Likewise, children raised by parents that smoke tend to take on the habit of smoking themselves. It stands to reason that children raised in an immoral society such as Sodom, will become perverse themselves. Where we live and whom we associate with can have a profound impact on who we grow up to become. Do you feel me my friends....

    Ni wahu,

    asaf
  • Thanks and that is very true asaf my friend. But the question is "If God approves or agree on their acts especially when the daughters think they have the answer to reproduce a community by making their father drunk and did what they did.
  • God's approval or non-approval Had nothing to do with that story or the writing of the bible by humans, which shows the traditions and morality at that time. In the same way both the old and new testament accept and condone slavery, which today is considered immoral by most societies.
  • I agree with you Suzuki. These are the marks of the times and are nothing more than mere fruits of the philosophies that mark the moment in history

    Whether God approved or disapproved the act, no one knows because we do not have the capacity to understand God and his will. One can only guess that what was done was part of the life that was already written when the world came into being. Or a willful act by all parties involved which signify impetuous behavior believe to be result of desperation of raging hormones.

    I believe God always forgive our sins no matte how big or small they may be, unlike some religions where they say that some bigger sins are unforgivable.
  • For the record, it was not Noah and his daughters who fornicated. It was Lot and his two daughters who came out with him from Sodom and Gomorrah. Noah's sin was that he got drunk and the younger son laughed at his father's nakedness. The two older ones went in while walking backwards with a sheet and covered their father's nakedness. The younger son was cursed. Noah did not have any daughters who went into the Ark. Whether he had daughters not not is not mentioned.

    The children born to Lot's daughters as a result of the incestual relations between father and daughters were the fathers of the nations of Moab and Ammon. The came to be enemies of God's people. It was clear that the sexual relations between father and daughters was a sinful act which resulted in two cursed nations.
  • Thanks TT, I just corrected the title of the thread. My apologies for misleading bible character. Thank you for sharing the truth about the incident and God's view regarding act of Lot's daughters. God bless.
  • Yes, God forgives all sinful act human will ever made, however, there is a sin that His mercy could not penetrate and that is the sin against the holy spirit. In other words, a person is given the free will to choice to choose between right and wrong. According to the word of God as it is plainly written whether you believe or not, God could cross any barrier but not without each person own choosing. If he gave the once perfect angel the same freedom, He is not going to do otherwise to lesser being that He created and love enough to break all the power He had and allow His only begotten son to come to our world and hung on the cross of calvary to that you and I can be free from the sting of sin and death for eternity. God bless.
  • Rumors claimed that uncles on Weno were also humping their nieces... almost like this Lot's daughter....
  • edited December 2016
    SS1, sorry if this is too much to ask or too stupid of a question on my behalf but if possible, could you please give examples of sins against the holy spirit that his mercy could not penetrate?

    I want to learn as much as I can because there are so many contradicting stories out there and I believe what you and TT teach on this forum make so much senses
  • I believe that He does not monitor every single thing that people do or think. He created the basic infrastructure of living organisms--whether a worm, a bacteria or the more complex human beings. He endowed in the cell the DNA mechanism that guides the development of the human being from a single-cell--whether a sperm or an egg.

    Once the fertilization occurs, the ultra-complex DNA signal everything--cell division, growth, differentiation of cells to specialized organs. And certain DNA structure will provide a memory bank in the brain--for all the actions, thoughts and memories that a human being experience as we go thru life. It's like the migrating birds or the salmon which comes back to the same breeding ground thousands of mile away when they are ready to spawn--to spawn the next generation. It's all guided by the internal DNA which retains memory and experience, etc.

    Same for human beings and genome. He does not look down and judge us everyday and every second of our lives. But his design of the genome will leave behind a clear history of the person as he/she goes thru life--including good thoughts, bad thoughts, good acts, bad acts, the sinful type. All of these are recorded in the DNA memory bank. And when you meet with your Maker, a copy of your memory bank was already uploaded when you were alive; and available for checking whether you lived the life that He had intended for you.

    Sounds like a science fiction? Maybe. But if you think of all the amazing behavior of animals which don't receive verbal instructions on how to migrate millions of miles, you cannot help but believe that memory in the DNA bank has a lot to do with receiving input, sorting them, and keeping them; and then transferring the blue-print to the next generation thru the single-cell that will be matched with another single cell to start another new cell division and growth.

    In short, He does not look down to us and say don't do this and don't do that. He did not tell Lot's daughters what to do at that time. Their decision and actions was already noted and will be viewed in due time when they meet their Maker. Just some thoughts as we try to understand these mysteries of life. We're accountable; and our DNA will leave evidence behind. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
  • Eeeeeewwwwww.....happy holidays.
  • Thank you Baghwon for asking this peanut head to help you with one question that I know that once in my own life also went through that I almost completely gave up every teaching from my parents and the bible itself since I was able to reason with everything I see and able to feel naturally. Well, with this small coconut shell up here. I was not and now I am fully convinced that God is ever loving, fair and just. Perhaps to unwrap that the true meaning and intend of the scripture concerning "sin against the Holy Spirit" I think it is fair to do one thing first which is to understand who is this Holy Spirit (Ghost) according to the scripture interpretation and reason for being mentioned from cover to cover of the bible.

    So, please understand that what I will share with you my friend and others I might have already mentioned in part in other previous threads related to this one. Anyways, when we already have read through the holy scripture and allowed the "Holy Spirit" to help us understand this topic, then we can move on to what I found and understand it as I believe was and still is that since God didn't force Lucifer to rebel against His Most High heavenly directions, the choice given to him (Lucifer then) willingly decided to go against His creator Most High Supreme God's decisions while the same spirit which calling on our hearts to consider choosing the right from wrong exercise its right to choose otherwise or against his Creator who had created him (Lucifer) in a special way that no other being in God's heavenly realms nor earthly being is in comparison to his beauty or intellect above all except the God heads (Father, Son and the Holy Spirit).

    So, again to my understanding of this important subject, God is a loving, just and fairness equally rained over all of His created beings Angelic host and human like us. The second part of this has been proven that his love does not sway every now and then like human does but stayed and always the same at all the times since till eternity. In other words, if God didn't force or made Lucifer to go against His will, then He (God) didn't and does not force us to do either force or to love Him back as He does to Lucifer and the lesser created being (human). Since God has shown us many proofs from His written words through His servants and messengers, one is for sure God is love, His son shows His character in full through His earthly ministry and the Holy Spirit is the agent Jesus promise His disciples that after He ascended into His heavenly throne, the Holy Spirit will become our comforter and helper during our journey on this earth.

    Now, we know now the reason for the mentioned of the Holy Spirit in the bible. He is our comforter and helper mostly and above all to look after those who believed in God and Son for what they are to their creation. And if the Holy Spirit (Ghost) is inseparable from the Father and the Son (Jesus Christ) and must shared the same sentiment with the two Gods who made it whole or in ONE God, then when one person like you and I and everyone else who by our own person choice defected or left God out of the equation, it means that neither of them we would remained allegiance to. In contrast with this thought or view, Holy Spirit will do everything within His power to help us to sustain in keeping the words of the scripture as reflected in our daily walk on this earth. But, if we chooses to fall and follow the same path that took the one and only angel who denies and rebelled against His creator, then where we would stand if we do the same? But, again the scripture was not only given to draw our attention to what would happen if we turned our back against the small voice (Holy Spirit) who is doing since what the other God heads would do the same, but also to show us how much God is willing to save any human being till the person is totally blocked the calling of the Holy Spirit and go his or her way. That is why I am one to believe that God is truly a loving and merciest God that one can see because He does not easily break His relationship or effort to save a person by one shot or repeated sin but will stand by you and I till we either open up the door to Him to come in or shut the door of hearts completely of His reach.

    So, it is my prayer that we all are sinners but love and mercy of God will remain and waiting for us until that moment that God only sees where with His power of helping us to come to Him becomes openly seen to Him and that is where I believe no one can see but Him alone. Hope this will bring us closer to the foot of cross everyday as we all journey on this fallen world. Merry Christmas and Happy Properous New Year to you all forumers. God bless!
  • Marc,

    I think your point may sound logic in terms of how human would view the point you raised. But, speaking from the view in support of the scripture, God does have interest in every single thing we do here on earth. Please understand that I am not trying to bash your point but only saying that if God didn't have the interest of what single thing we do on earth, then why would His son had to step down from the right hand throne of God and came to earth? In fact, the ultimate goal of his incarnation was and is still to save the fallen human raise from the death penalty of sin smeared over the entire human raise. But, it is clear in the scripture that His purpose is also to show you and I what is right and wrong in plain by our actions. Thus, it is matter to Him how we behave ourself in this life. Because it was not, then perhaps the scripture would only account His agony on the cross or even omit all the good works He did before taking up the penalty of sin and hung on the cross.

    As for other species (animals), when we reflect back before and after God had declared everything He created in His words "is perfect", God gave the first human race (Adam) dominion over every other living creatures or all beasts on the new earth. But, the dominion was stripped away because of what Adam did or disobedient to the principal given by their creator. So, yes I agree that animal or other living species are still here but human has no part in telling what they must do and not because the dominion power has been removed after the fall.

    My point is that God is very clear according to the scripture that everything we do counts with God whether it be good or bad or right or wrong. Perhaps the question one would ask is "Why" God is interested in what we do and say?
  • So back to the original question posted in this post. Jesus' crucifixion occurred many years after the issue with Lot's daughters. Are we then dealing with two sets of principles: pre-Jesus and post-Jesus.

    Jesus death on the cross manifested one of the fundamental principles of Christianity--it's thru faith in Him and accepting the principal that He will forgive our sins thru the blood of his Son. In short, it's not our deed that will count in front of our God or make us worthy of going to heaven. It's thru accepting Him and living Christian life and showing what a Christian way of life is like--not to make us deserve to go to heaven but simply as witness to our accepting Him as our Savior.

    So I cannot make a judgement regarding Lot's daughters since their action, well intentioned as it may have been, cannot be measured against the post-Jesus looking glass.

    To me, the best way to reconcile this is my head as a Christian is simply to let the Almighty Lord be the one to judge Lot's daughters or anybody who lived before pre-Jesus era. As for those who lived post-Jesus crucifixion, they and all of us today will be saved by his Grace, not our action. That's how I understand the principles of our Christian teaching although we may be Catholics, Protestants, SDA, Assembly of God, Lutherans, etc. Merry Christmas and may our good Lord bless all of us as He has always done even when we don't deserve His blessings.
  • God's word can and does tell us what is right and what is wrong. So does His Holy Spirit. The Book of Leviticus tell us a lot about what God approves of and what He does not. If we make the excuse that we cannot tell the difference between right and wrong then we are making an excuse to willfully sin.

    It is interesting that Lot's daughters made their father drunk so that he would not know what he was doing, or, perhaps he could make the excuse that he was too drunk to know the difference. This is a tactic the Devil uses to perfection. We have heard so many cases of murders, rape, stealing, rioting, etc with the excuse that the perpetrators were drunk. Sometimes we tend to downplay the severity of the crime because "they did not really know what they were doing". But in their subconscious, they did know. But they have numbed themselves to the voice of the Holy Spirit telling them which way is right for them to take.

    No. We are not righteous enough to judge. But God gave us the intelligence to know the difference between right and wrong. No, it is not our works that save us. It is grace through faith in Jesus that does. But we will be judged by our works. In other words, our good works will prove our faith in Jesus, genuine faith, faith that works.

    I hope this is helpful.

    God bless you all.
  • amen to to both of you brothers. so from having your takes, gave me that God didn't and never 'will agree with Lot's daughters actions nor an open path to make excuse when we human failed to receive and do according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the truth of the matter is that I didn't see where it says that the daughters had committed the unpardonable sin or have sinned against the Holy Spirit after what they've done with their father. So, for me not seeing the verdict written after the fact, solidified my believe that God does not use one or thousands wrong mistakes human done would prompt God to concluded that you or me have stepped over and beyond and outside of God's lane of mercy. But like you both said, it will be from how serious or genuine our faith and loyalty to God will reflect in our day to day walk with the Lord. And yes, no one is going to heaven because of his good works. but, the bible is very clear that unrepented sin has no place in His kingdom. To be frank, the devil is not going to heaven because he rebelled against God's goverment but chooses not repent of what he did wrong. There is a difference there. Merry Christmas and God bless you and your families.
  • Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy - Leviticus 11:44. This command was addressed at first to the Israelites, but it is with equal propriety addressed to Christians, as the professed people of God. The foundation of the command is, that they professed to be his people, and that as his people they ought to be like their God. Compare Micah 4:5. It is a great truth, that people everywhere will imitate the God whom they worship. They will form their character in accordance with his. They will regard what he does as right. They will attempt to rise no higher in virtue than the God whom they adore, and they will practice freely what he is supposed to do or approve. Hence, by knowing what are the characteristics of the gods which are worshiped by any people, we may form a correct estimate of the character of the people themselves; and, hence, as the God who is the object of the Christian's worship is perfectly holy, the character of His worshipers should also be holy. And hence, also, we may see that the tendency of true religion is to make people pure. As the worship of the impure gods of the pagan molds the character of the worshipers into their image, so the worship of Yahweh molds the character of His professed friends into His image, and they become like him. For this reason, I strongly answer that God did not allow incest to be part of our lives in reference to Lot’s case, God did not permit that to be happened.
  • but it happened under His watch, why?
    now, I fully respect your thoughts and views but please be mindful that Scripture did say, "His thoughts and ways are NOT yours. leave the answer to Him. Happy New Year yoal.
  • Psalm 25:4 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Show me Your ways, O Lord;
    Teach me Your paths.


    Psalm 86:11 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Teach me Your way, O Lord;
    I will walk in Your truth;
    Unite my heart to fear Your name.

    Isaiah 2:3 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Many people shall come and say,
    “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
    To the house of the God of Jacob;
    He will teach us His ways,
    And we shall walk in His paths.”
    For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
    And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

    Micah 4:2 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Many nations shall come and say,
    “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
    To the house of the God of Jacob;
    He will teach us His ways,
    And we shall walk in His paths.”
    For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
    And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

    Psalm 25:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

    The humble He guides in justice,
    And the humble He teaches His way.

    Matthew 22:16 New King James Version (NKJV)

    And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.

    Mark 12:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

    When they had come, they said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and care about no one; for You do not regard the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?

    Luke 20:21 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth:

    Psalm 67:2 New King James Version (NKJV)

    That Your way may be known on earth,
    Your salvation among all nations.

    Psalm 103:7 New King James Version (NKJV)

    He made known His ways to Moses,
    His acts to the children of Israel.
  • John 14:4
    "And you know the way where I am going."

    Psalm 95:10
    "For forty years I loathed that generation, And said they are a people who err in their heart, And they do not know My ways.

    Hebrews 3:10
    "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';

    John 14:5
    Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?"
  • Psalm 34:11 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Come, you children, listen to me;
    I will teach you the fear of the Lord.

    Ezekiel 44:23 New King James Version (NKJV)

    “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

    Ezra 7:10 New King James Version (NKJV)

    For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the Law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach statutes and ordinances in Israel.

    Ezra 7:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

    And you, Ezra, according to your God-given wisdom, set magistrates and judges who may judge all the people who are in the region beyond the River, all such as know the laws of your God; and teach those who do not know them.

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