Which is better Progressivism of Conservatism?

I think I've had a lifetimes fill of this topic, don't you agree? This site is getting completely bombarded by this. It's getting ridiculous.
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  • Socialism is better I guess. Liberals aren't progressive, its just a propaganda tool same as every marine is a rifleman. If liberals are progressive then why are they rioting and antifa attacking conservatives and blocking traffic and all that crap? Does this sound like progress? They can't even process the fact that they lost the elections. When liberals ruled American under Obama for 8 years you didn't see us rioting and burning cars and looting and what not.

    Liberalism means you get free stuffs for not working.

    Conservative/ republican means if you work hard you can have your piece of the American dream.

  • edited May 8
    PawnStar,

    Take another look at the posts in this forum. If you take the sheer volume of your posts, the highly divisive language you choose, and the fact that the election has been long over, it kind of adds up to you not being able to accept something. I'm not sure what that is considering Trump won the election. Whatever it is, I hope you find some sense of peace soon.

    I get it- you have deep-seated difference with the left (and apparently anyone caught in the no-man's land that is now the center)... and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. You have a different world view. Once again, you're granted this by the first amendment, and, if you're residing on US soil, this is regardless of citizenship, race, creed, or sexual preference. You are completely within your rights to have such beliefs. Having said that- the opposition happens to bear the same rights given by that same amendment.

    We need to be occasionally reminded one of the big reason why the forefathers departed Europe and what they were in search of. A large number of the emigrants were fleeing persecution by Europe- persecution because they were different. Difference was mainly religious preference, but the fact remains that differences and the resulting persecution drove a large portion of the diaspora. Today's laws are a reflection of the continuing push to fully realize the vision that gave birth to the USA. This brings me back to your comment on liberals, libertarians (which I happen to be), and "fagots". In the days before the founding these terms could be substituted with Puritan, Irish (at a later date), and Protestant (non-Catholic and/or non-Anglican). To flee persecution and found a country only to persecute others is not crazy. Nope, it's not ridiculous. It's hypocritical.

    Your definition of the two movements is uninformed, divisive, and an indication of your unwillingness to accept ANYTHING that does not conform to your belief set.

    Consider if I replied with the definitions below:

    Liberalism is open, inclusive culture.
    Conservatism is racism, bigotry, xenophobia, and furthering the class divide.

    That wouldn't be fair to say, would it? No. So how is what you characterize as liberalism and conservatism fair?

    I think you may want to examine more closely your posts. They are by and large, hypocritical, racially and socially divisive, seem to continue on the rhetoric of an election that has been long over, and, in my humble opinion in need of something to calm your nerves. You served like a lot of us, right? Try going for a long run. That might calm you down.

    "... Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."
  • A liberal will reply the same way you did. But thanks for progressive view on the subject.
  • PawnStar,

    That's a very oddly placed reply. It isn't a "view". You can take inventory of your posts and the contents of those posts yourself- they are "accurate" and not "views".

    The rest is for your benefit-educationally.

    You're welcome.
  • @xectems you are not the first veteran/POG to say those things to me. All the liberals that I've ran into in this forum who are veterans were all POGs during their time in the green machine.
  • Hey now @xectms, let's not get too liberal here :) Since I'm usually on the progressive side and strongly push for change, I'd like to also point out my conservative views. It all comes to the small things such as preserving our language and the old ways. Let's talk about farming and the old school canoe houses. I'm not sure it's superstitious but I believe we should still separate the male and female work space to preserve the gender role part of our culture...then again maybe not! I'm joking, I have nothing against conservatism as long as there's the "other side".

    The claim that liberals don't work for what they have is plain false. Go out and take a survey. The volume of high paying tech individuals out there are liberals and so does most of the science and the academic communities. I also know of gay liberal lawyers in Micronesia.

    PS, your reference to POG and Vets in here is a disgrace to their time of service. Please leave them all out of this conversation and make generalization over people who served. You making green to Gold doesn't really show any value to what you say. Look at yourself stumbling over your own words and can't come up with a simple direct conversation. We are not attacking you. We all are giving you a helping hand expressing yourself. I suggest you pick up a shovel and go dig a ditch to do some hard labor to have purpose other than spamming this forum and coming up with nonsensical illusions of what you think is right. If you think you're right, then the whole world is wrong... what is wrong with that picture?
  • I said vet pogs. And yeah they always lean liberal. That's what happens when you go through the soft pipeline/BCT. That's what happens when no sense of duty, country and honor and traditions aren't instilled in pogs when they go through the so called basic combat training they go.
  • Progressive or Liberalism are folks or an ideal believe that stand for everything and everyone. Whereas Conservatives?
  • We believe in the same believes as the left but not to an extent of everything. For example the left believe everyone should get a free ticket to college, conservative on the other hand believe that you have to earned a spot/ticket to college.

    Things that conserves really believe in are that there is a god, marriage is between a man and a women, the right to bear arms, federal gov should not interfere with states govs, well regulate militias and national guard units, strong military, less federal government interference with the economy, pro-life which means abortions.

    The left yes, does stand up for everything. Even if it mean forgetting their own morals.

    "He who defend/stand for everything defend/stand for nothing"
  • lol...check your moral compass. It's pointing east, not north! You don't even understand what morals are in the first place. What is morally right to you is NOT right, it's perspective, religion, family, education, science and culture....maybe some more factors that creates individuals moral compass. You know, the monks in Vietnam protested against the war and one actually burn himself alive in front of the troops.

    You are talking about a lifetime of dedication lit up in flames for a war many of you conservatives believe it's your "DUTY" to liberate their people. Gosh... I just remembered, you can't comprehend these statements. I'll scurry off to sweep and mob the floor or my day will be totally worthless :)
  • Fact check!

    Buddhist monk Quang Duc publicly burns himself to death in a plea for President Ngo Dinh Diem to show “charity and compassion” to all religions. Diem, a Catholic who had been oppressing the Buddhist majority, remained stubborn despite continued Buddhist protests and repeated U.S. requests to liberalize his government’s policies. Not the war!
    http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/buddhist-immolates-himself-in-protest

    Don't twist the facts to fit your view lindy.

    Another fact check!
    all of the major U.S. wars in the 20th century—World War I, II, Korea and Vietnam—were entered by Democratic administrations. Harry Truman, a Democrat, is still the only world leader to use a nuclear bomb on a population. And with the exception of World War II, where almost all anti-war sentiment collapsed after Pearl Harbor, these wars were entered over the objections of the left wing of the Democratic Party. But while the presence of that left wing has guaranteed that anti-war liberals rally to the Democratic side, it not yet stopped a Democratic administration from going to war.
  • It's a religious war that shouldn't started another US arm-strong in the first place. Even with intervention, the country is now more corrupt and extreme as ever. Don't add to history the little "we fix" nonsense. I'm sure you just think of Rambo when you think of that war.

    The monk in this story was a true conservative btw. It's a random act of conservatism that you should remember. It's very touching for all us and liberals to see. We don't need to google this to remember who he was or do a fact check. Now isn't that a great piece of conservatism history you should keep? You're welcome.

    Why should I care about the democratic party? It's a whole hoax to convince you that you're on "their side". Look at the subject. Conservatism or Progressivism. These two have nothing to do with political parties. Are you sure you're looking at the right dictionary?
  • Religious war? The hell you talking about?

    Buddhist aren't conservatives. The very meaning Buddhism is to detached oneself from wordly problems. Don't twist the facts.

    The US is having a dilemma right now because you libetarts can't get over the lost of November.
  • Okay...i don't say this enough in my life but I'll quit the cycle of insanity you have before I fall and hit my head at the corner of my desk. Your argument has always been conservative for what is already here or what should remain. The point of the story was a rare conservative act. (Hands up in the air) I give up. You're all wrapped up in Trump's hair and probably suffocated yourself now and then. Relax...open your ears....listen...maybe reflect and then respond.
  • Don't mind my ignorance but what is a pog?
  • Buddhists are pacifist. Look it up. For someone who claim to be educated you are ignorant. You never answer my question as to why this is a religious war. Defer defer defer defer. That's all you know. Cause you are a women don't mean ill go soft on you. I don't subscribe to political correctness daily, Ms. Lindy.

    Im not a fan of Trump but he is not given his fair time in your media. A media that is liberal oriented. Everything he says and do is covered. If he was a democrat it wouldn't happen.

  • Anunaki, a pog is a person other than grunt. A support. Behind the rear. Folks with a combat action badge or with a combat badge with no rifle or knife award. Bob from the FOB. With cool kits and acog but never shoot at the enemy or get shot from the enemy. Rear echelon mother fundays (Hahaha). Like these 2 here.
  • PawnStar,

    The military is a giant machine. Remove parts and the juggernaut comes to a grinding halt... YES, even the infantry. Maybe you were never taught that. Good luck fighting any war without food, communications, transportation, A PAYCHECK (yes finance folks are important, too), uniforms, boots, weapons, rounds... the list is just too long to go through. Keep fooling yourself though. I have to say- its at the same time annoying, depressing, and, oddly enough, kind of amusing.

    Suffice to say, your insistence that infantryman are all that matters is uninformed. Do they carry the brunt of the load? I would NEVER argue against that. To put yourself in harms way will never fall off the top of the list for any of us. Are they the ONLY ones who left their families- sacrificed? Not at all. Are they the only ones coming home in coffins? No on that as well. Should their sacrifices be diminished because you think lowly of their MOS? You spent time putting the enemy in your cross-hairs, we get it. You're a HERO. That doesn't give you the right to spew ignorant rants, like above, about those who have suffered to make sure your ungrateful ass is supplied, retrofitted, or informed.

    Those who do not wear the badges you mentioned should not be cast aside especially by the likes of you. You need to be reminded, they do what they do to ensure you have what you need on the battlefield. What would you do without them, I wonder? A normal person would be grateful. You are NOT normal.

    Conservatives snub their noses at their liberal/progressive counterparts for being "elitist" then you follow with the crap you post above demeaning anyone who doesn't wear combat action/combat infantryman badges. Look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary. You might find your picture next to it.

    Yes, you're a HERO. I guess that's the takeaway here for you, right? SMH.
  • The biggest difference between combat arms and the people of other military occupational specialties is that if POGs don't do their jobs, someone doesn't get paid, doesn't get equipment, doesn't get intelligence or doesn't get mail. If combat arms doesn't do their jobs, people die.
  • A grunt can do the job of a pog but pog can't do the grunts job. And be honest I hate pogs, except the 68X, 13Fs and 18Xs, these are the only guys I have respect for. A pog can sit in a fob and when that fob gets a single mortar round he/she get awarded a combat action badge even if the round landed a 1000 meters from him or her.

    Pogs are there to support that's their only job. Bitching about if we don't do ours job you guys don't get paid or get chow or supplies. The hell out of here with that bravo sierra.
  • The same goes for infantry. I have watched as young infantry men who never went out get a CIB because of a Mortar attack. But the average infantryman cannot do the job of POGs. That's not to say that the average POG can do the job as a infantryman. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. But no not everyone is supprt to infantry. That is a juvenile argument. Intelligence drives the mission . Recon directs the battle. Your argument makes me believe you did not serve outside a company size element
  • There's only 2 jobs in the US ARMY. INFANTRY AND THOSE WHO SUPPORT THEM.

    To be eligible for the CIB one must be first infantry, second personally present during a attack or ambush and carrying the fight to the enemy. The Pogs CAB Shit even a POG general officer can be awarded the CAB by being in a base that takes one incoming round while not being personally present. In my days in active while partying in Afghanistan we purposely go out on patrols just to get attack so that the young infantry guys with no CIB can earn theirs.
  • Oh you must have been a cav scouts. Recon is just a fancy name for support.
  • JimBarker,

    I think your view is an oversimplification of reality. Yes, from a narrow perspective, your assessment can be called "true". However, put a combat arms person out in the field and then have the "POGS" not do their jobs- the result will ALSO be loss of life. Imagine a battalion in the field and the logistics personnel screw up the order for ammo, or the MI guy pegs friendlies as enemy... there are tons of scenarios where the result is loss of life. The "machine" requires all it's parts to operate and, yes, the military is a war machine with infantry at the tip of the spear, but, good luck being infantry if you have no bullets, no food, no water. The infantryman NEEDS his support elements to survive. Anyone who claims otherwise is either ignorant of the realities of modern warfare or woefully misguided.

    Yes, we get it. Combat arms folks are, in fact, laying their lives on the line by placing themselves in the direct line of fire. God bless each and every one of them for their bravery and sacrifice. This fact no one can, or is trying, to diminish.

    PawnStar,

    Keep posting. It removes all doubt. (...think Mark Twain)

    You're the worst kind of narcissist- the simple-minded narcissist. You claim to be able to do "what they do". In your mind, you can probably do ANYTHING better than ANYONE. Typical narcissistic self-view. What a shame. Keep posting... it's getting pretty entertaining.
  • image


    There are 2 types of vet. The combat vet and the Vet who never saw action.

    image
  • As for the question which is better. Is simple the conservative are. We dont incite violence. We dont shut down free speech of others when they invoke it. We dont go on riots now or when we lost 8 years ago. Everytime conservative have a peaceful rally the left always show up and instigates violence and try to shut down their right to assembly and free speech. Look whats happening across the states. The police are afraid to check the left.

    Oh this pics describe what the lleft the so called party of progress and tolerance is.
    image
  • The parties changed after World War 2. The people remained who they were and their beliefs remained theirs, but the name of the parties changed some time after World War 2. So basically the bigots (Democrats) ran off and joined the Republicans, while the (Conservatives at heart) switched to the Democratic side of the aisle. So, the beliefs that Abraham started/founded is actually the same beliefs as those who are democrats these days... I actually kinda stumbled upon this while browsing earlier. It kind of defers the blame away from democrats as "warmongers" as mentioned above. In a sense, Truman was a republican....idealogically

    http://factmyth.com/factoids/democrats-and-republicans-switched-platforms/

  • The site actually has a "visual explanation" where it shows the democratic voters changing to republican candidates from the early days up until last election
  • What you are referring to is the so called switch which was supposed to have happened during the time Barry Goldwaters ran for president for the Republicans. As we know Barry didn't win. This myth has been debunked long ago. Barry Goldwaters ran for the 1964 presidency. Truman was FDRs VP. He assumed the Presidency after the dead of FDR in 1945-53. Goldwaters ran for president in 1964 so how could Truman be part of the switch and be a republican "ideological" when the so called switch which never happened took place YEARS AFTER HIS TIME IN THE WHITE HOUSE. Haha
  • PS,
    Last I checked Infantry Battalions have recon scout platoons. Those are either cab scouts or infantrymen depending on the MTOE. Those jobs are to locate and report. But then again that comment just solidified my earlier comment about serving at the company level. It seems you do not have specialty platoon time. But FYI I am B4. And The picture you posted was of an MP Company who lost 3 soldiers during a foot patrol. I find it very disrespectful to try to diminish the importance of other units just because they were able to let off some steam at a MWR event. One of those guys in the picture was a soldier of mine who after 4 tours changed MOS and was assigned to that unit. One the Soldiers who died is a family friend.

    Xectms,

    I apologize my statement wasn't as clear as I intended. Yes you are correct the the military is a machine and combat arms cannot conduct their jobs without the support. What I was trying to explain is that by design, combat arms number one mission is to kill the enemy before the enemy can kill one of our own. That is it. Yes there are instances that require additional training but in its essence that is what combat arms job is. 16 weeks of kill kill kill. As far as the othe MOS' or POGs, sure the end result can result in death, but the primary job for those individuals isn't killing for the sake of others.

    I hope that clears up my thought process
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