And we wait...

It is morning here in California, and as yet there is no winner in the presidential election. Biden has accumulated 238 Electoral votes, and Trump has thus far accumulated 213 Electoral votes. These Electoral votes are awarded based upon calls made by the Associated Press, and are, absent challenge, secure.

Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Alaska, and Nevada have not yet been called. The president is leading in North Carolina, Georgia and Alaska with more than 90% of the vote tabulated in those states. He is one percentage point ahead in North Carolina, and two percentage points ahead in Georgia, with about 6% of the vote yet to tabulate in those states. He will win in Alaska, but with at least 50% of the vote yet to be counted, he has not yet been awarded those 3 electoral votes.

Biden is leading in Nevada by one percentage point, and with about a third of the votes yet to be tabulated, that race is too close to call. Biden also leads in Wisconsin and Michigan, by one point in each state, and with less than 10% of the vote yet to tabulate, both of those races are too close to call.

Which leaves Pennsylvania. The president is ahead in Pennsylvania by nine percentage points, which would appear to be a virtually insurmountable lead. But only about 65% of the vote has been tabulated thus far, and a vast majority of the votes yet to be counted are in the cities and surrounding suburbs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. No votes have been tabulated in Montgomery County, a suburb of Philadelphia, and at least 25% of the votes remain to be counted in Philadelphia County, where Biden holds a 75% advantage in votes already counted. Everyone considers Pennsylvania too close to call.

It comes down to this. If Biden wins Nevada, Wisconsin, and Michigan, those states together will give him an additional 32 electoral votes, and with 270 votes total, he will win the presidency. Without Pennsylvania. If any of those three states are awarded to the president, after all votes have been counted, then Biden will need Pennsylvania to win the presidency.

Edited to provide a link to Talking Points Memo, which will update with new information when it occurs:

At the same time, the US is averaging more than 80,000 new COVID-19 cases per day in the past week, with more than 90,000 new cases yesterday.


  • feels good waiting.....
  • It is mid-morning here in California, on a sunny but chilly Saturday, November 7. Former Vice President Biden has been awarded Arizona, Nevada, and Pennsylvania, and thus is the putative president-elect.

    Absent any successful challenges by the still Whiner-in-Chief, Joe Biden will be certified by the Secretaries of State of the 50 states of the United States of America as the 46th president of the United States.

    The election, however, did not go well for the Democrats. The House of Representatives may have lost as many as 15 seats in this election, giving it a much narrower Democratic majority going into the next Congress. This may cause Nancy Pelosi to lose the Speakership in January, and unfortunately fracture the Democratic Party in the House of Representatives.

    And the Democrats failed in their attempts to increase the number of State legislatures under Democratic control, which will give the Republicans control over a large portion of Congressional redistricting resulting from the 2020 Census going into next year. This will lead to greater gerrymandering of seats in the House of Representatives by the Republican Legislatures which will alter the balance of political power until the next Census in 2030.

    Thus far, the Republicans flipped one senate seat (Tuberville (R) beat Jones (D) in Alabama) and the Democrats flipped two (Kelly (D) beat McSally (R) in Arizona, and Hickenlooper (D) beat Gardner (R) in Colorado). Since the Democrats needed to pick up at least a net of three seats in the Senate to take control (with vice-president elect Harris being able to cast deciding votes in case of a 50-50 tie), McConnell will remain Majority Leader to the great injury of the United States.

    One possibility remains for the Democrats in the Senate races. Georgia (which will have a recount which Biden may very well win) had two senate races to be decided this election. And with neither having a clear majority vote, both races will go to a runoff. Ossoff (D) will be in a runoff against Perdue (R), the incumbent, and the Reverend Warlock (D) will be in a runoff against Loeffler (R) who won her seat in a special election three years ago. If both Democrats win these runoffs, then the Senate will split 50-50, and the Democrats will obtain control with vice-president Harris being able to cast the deciding vote.

    This possibility offers the greatest chance for progress on a number of vital issues, such as the pandemic, climate change, control of federal spending, environmental issues, and race relations, because with a 50-50 split the parties will be compelled to cooperate with each other or see the Democrats force matters in a bitterly divided Congress. And this is a very real possibility. As I pointed out above, the entire vote in Georgia is subject to a recount, which Biden may very well win. If so, this indicates that the Democrats have a slim majority of all of the votes in the state. If the Democratic Party in Georgia can turn out huge numbers in both Senate runoffs, then it is possible that the Democrats will have obtained a 50-50 split in the Senate.

    All in all, a good result for Democrats that Biden will be president, and otherwise, a very bad election for the Democratic party.

    On the Republican side, the Republican Party can take solace (IMHO) from two results of this election. First, they have rid themselves of a stain on the Republican party which would have destroyed this Democracy, and second, they have held the Senate and increased their majorities in both the US House of Representatives and the state legislatures. On the negative side for Republicans (although this will not become immediately known), the Republican party seems to have become more White Supremacist and more extreme.

    All in all, America could have done much better.
  • So let's wait for the different legal challenges to play out and see where it goes. I think for the Gore-Bush election challenge, it took 41 or so days to settle. We're only 5 or 6 days from the election; so yes, let's wait a little more.

    It's not over until it's over. Even if Trump does not win, he should take upon himself and his administration to look into the accusations about illegal counting, voting, etc. Maybe, in the end, all these accusations will be found wanting. But let the court challenges go thru; so that the voters can have confidence in the US election process--for this election and for those coming in the future.

    I think the Bush-Gore challenge was settled in Florida in December after the November vote. Bush won with 271 electoral college vote--just one (1) over the required 270. There is time for these legal challenges to go thru the different states' court systems; and some might end up in the SCOTUS. It should be settled before the meeting of the Electors which will be, I believe, in December.

    As the title of this post says, let's wait a little more. Good luck to all.
  • While you diehard Trumpsters wait and hope for good luck, America is moving forward

    Biden is already forming a new task force that will listen to Dr, Fauci and other scientists to stop the out-of-control Trumpandemic.
  • I am not a "diehard Trumpster"--no reason to but I like the US system and its election process of one man/one vote. But I believe that all votes that are casted must be counted if they are valid votes; and if they follow existing rules, regulations, statutes, etc.

    The case of PA is interesting; and I can see why the Trump people are bringing it to the SCOTUS. What do you do with the votes that arrive at the authorized/designated voting place after 8 pm on the Election day? PA's democrats want to count them. PA's republicans say that they should not be counted. Biden is ahead by about 20,000. But the total votes received after 8 pm on the Election Day are probably in the hundreds of thousands. It's hard to imagine that given the closeness of their numbers--that the 20,000 lead will remain the same.

    It can increase or it can decrease; it can boost Biden's projected win but also it can give more votes to Trump. I believe the Electoral College vote for PA is 20. So if Biden loses the Electoral Votes, he will still be below the 270 vote threshold.

    Today, the US Supreme Court will receive documents from both sides to support their arguments. So we'll see how it goes from there. It's been reported that the SCOTUS had made a decision a couple of days before the election--about that this question that was being asked of the SCOTUS to settle before the election. But the SCOTUS said they would wait until after the election as they clearly did not want their decision to have an impact on the Election, one way or another

    Let's remember that the SCOTUS now has 5 to 3 with the conservative majority. Whatever the SCOTUS decide regarding this matter will be it--no further opportunity for appeal, etc. So it's good that Justice Barrette is now in the SCOTUS. She had said that she makes her decisions based on the letter of the law. So we'll see. But I think she will join Alioto, Thomas and Gorsuch in deciding against the PA Supreme Court which had allowed the extension days for voting and counting. We'll see.

    Anybody who celebrate Biden's win, which is solely based on AP project, could find themselves disappointed.
  • About 10:45 AM here in Northern California on Sunday, November 9, and it is all over but the shouting (and Marc's whining), and there has actually been a lot of shouting and cheering over the past 24 hours. Oh, and BTW, Marc is not only a Trump Cultist, but he lies a lot too.

    In case you haven't noticed, Trumpist, not only has the AP projected a Biden win, but ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and Telemundo have all DECLARED (projected is such a weak word) that Joseph R. Biden will be the 46th President of the United States of America. For God's sake, Marc, even FOX News has declared Biden the winner. I haven't looked, but I will bet that even the Daily Caller and Breitbart have (no doubt whiningly) declared former Vice President, and soon-to-be (72 days, count them down, people!) President Joseph R. Biden the winner. Where the hell are you, Marc? In the basement, sucking your thumb and holding out for a Supreme Court reprieve? Hannity is looking for a job and Tucker Carlson is starting a presidential campaign PAC!

    The only real news (other than Marc's pathetic whining) is that the total vote count in Georgia now has Biden ahead by a little more than 10,000 votes. This means, to everyone but Marc, that Biden will win the recount, and finish with over 300 electoral votes. 306, if you are counting exactly, which is the same number as Trump won in 2016. And Biden beat the Orange Baboon by more than 4 million (4,000,000) actual votes (4,000,105 as of right now if you are counting, and I am), a higher margin than Hillary beat the Whiner-in-Chief by in 2016 (she beat his ass by more than 2 million votes, and he still claims he won the popular vote because he is a liar).

    Sorry to be so hard on you, Marc, but you asked for it. In spades. Show a little dignity. For crying out loud, you are not even entitled to vote in my country! Acknowledge the Biden win, and wish him well.

    And watch Georgia! If Stacie Abrams does her job as well in the Senate runoffs as she did in the general election, the Democrats may control the Senate!
  • Sarem, since when did the news media become the deciders of the final outcomes of votes, any election, especially the President of the United States. Never and never will. It's the people who decide. Its the legal votes that will count. Not theories, not projections but actual votes, counted one by one. That is how voting works.

    Celebrations are not counted. This is not a popular contest. It's an election. So if you could allow that constitutional and statutory fact to your head, you will see where I am coming from. And my opinion does not matter. That is how the US election system work.

    So let the legal challenge go thru the process--winding its way to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS). It's reported that there will probably around 5 major legal challenges that have been mounted by the Trump people. I say good for them.

    You say that I am not an American so I should not say anything about it. True but I have siblings and children who are voters; and some even live in California. While I am not a US voter, I have responsibility to my relatives--to educate them about these things.

    So let's just observe and wait for the legal challenges and recount to go thru. Those are part of the process. I would be disappointed if the Trump people did not proceed with the legal challenges that they are doing now.
  • Marc,
    Trump will lose and he will be thrown in prison eventually leaving him no room to ever run again, especially after the waiting, he will decide not to concede, indicate a political suicide and sore loser, mark my words! I can sleep well tonight.
  • errr, take some sleeping pill so you can honestly sleep well tonight. Trump can win or he can lose. Remember, at the moment, there is only about 20 electoral college votes between him and Biden. The 20 votes are from Pennsylvania (?) which is still counting. And PA is under SCOTUS order to segregate those votes that arrived after 8:00 pm on Nov. 3. If SCOTUS were to tell PA to not count those votes, then, the 20 that the news media has given to Biden will be taken away. Which means the election result is still not decided yet. So don't go to sleep if this outcomes bothers you. I will be able to sleep because I don't care who wins the election--I am just hoping that the American election system will be improved a little bit better because of the legal challenges that the Trump people are brining to the court.
  • marc claims, "...I don't care who wins the election."

    Sure, marc. That's why you continue posting your baseless opinion that Trump can still win even though every major news organization - including Fox News - and even former Republican president George Bush have accepted Biden's victory.

    But you don't care. LOL You and Melania. image
  • Just can't stop lying, can you Marc

    "[T]here is only about 20 electoral college votes between him and Biden."

    Where did you learn arithmetic, Marc? In nursery school?

    CNN has Biden at 279 and Trump at 214. That is a difference of 65 Electoral votes.

    Talking Points Memo (TPM) has Biden at 290 and Trump at 214, because TPM has already awarded Arizona to Biden. That is a difference of 76 Electoral votes.

    FOX News has Biden at 290 and Trump at 214, because FOX News has also awarded Arizona to Biden. Also 76 Electoral votes.

    Biden leads Georgia by more than 10,000 votes (11,595 at last count, with 99% of precincts reporting). The Bush v. Gore Florida original vote difference was about 1,700 votes before the recount, and wound up with Bush winning by 537 votes out of more than 6,000,000 votes cast:

    After an intense recount process and the United States Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore, Bush won Florida's electoral votes by a margin of only 537 votes out of almost six million cast and, as a result, became the president-elect.


    So when Biden wins Georgia after the recount there (Trump winning Georgia has about the same odds as a lightning bolt hitting you right in the Uranus), Biden will have 306 Electoral votes, and your Great Orange Cult Leader can have the rest.

    What I can't understand is why you lie, when your lies can be proven false so easily. You should at least make it harder to prove you are lying, so I have more work to do before I make a fool of you. You are really too easy.

    BTW, Cultist, even if the GOP wins the suit in Pennsylvania, a victory will have no effect on the outcome of that race. There will be less than 4,000 votes which were received between November 3 and November 6. Biden is currently ahead by more than 45,000 votes. Let's be charitable, and agree to throw out 5,000 votes as a result of the extended deadline. BIDEN STILL WINS PENNSYLVANIA BY 40,000 VOTES!

    You have become not only a bad liar, but a PATHETIC bad liar. Go to your basement and suck your thumb until you can show some dignity.
  • Trump will lose his legal battle and end up in matter how you see it. Never in history with such big a difference can a candidate pull off an impossible task.

    him and his legal dogs are fighting a grave battle and will definitely, sourly, going down in flames, ....him being a sore loser will never be voted again or perhaps voted in a prison cell, no more Trump, no more Trump, no more Trump!!!!! beautiful, well sounding deep sleep tonight, hahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • errr: Even better than the Orange Baboon winding up in jail will be his upcoming "Monica Lewinski Moment." That is when E. Jean Carroll gets to prove that Trump raped her, and then lied in public about it, and slandered and libeled her. The DoJ tried to take over the case, but thus far has failed, and they don't seem to have filed an appeal.

    I say "Monica Lewinski Moment" because Ms. Carroll kept the dress she was wearing when Trump raped her, and she has already proven through tests that there is male DNA on the dress. She has asked for a sample of Trump's DNA, and Trump has been ordered to produce it.

    Read all about it here:
  • it interesting how Trump lies has influence hundreds of millions souls world wide, including Latinos, Blacks and browns like thousands of Micronesians abroad and on Islands what is even more interesting is, these same people behave so radical they cant control themselves many restored to violent, they can't stand the lost.. this is historical.. wow!
  • The point is that Biden has not won the Presidency yet in spite of all the celebrations and pundits projections. Maybe in the end, after all the legal challenges, he will. But we're not there yet. So don't expect Trump to concede. I would bet that Biden and his people would do exactly the same thing--legal challenge where irregularities are reported--if he had evidence that there were irregularities in the vote process; and vote counting.

    Wait for a couple of days or weeks. The states will eventually officially report their counts. Some will be considered clean. Others will be subject to challenge. Some will result in recounts. That's just how it is. All the elections go thru that. So I am saying let's wait for the process to go thru; just make sure that all legal ballots are counted. And only those that were received on dates/hours as specified by each State's legislature--not individual election board member; not State Governor; not even State Supreme Court.

    The problem with Pennsylvania is because Governor wanted to change the dates for accepting the ballots. It is his US Constitutional rights to propose amendments to the existing state election laws. However, the State Legislature did not approve Governor's amendments. So he challenged it to the State Supreme Court which approved the receipt date change. Trump people are saying the State Supreme Court has no authority to make that change. Governor cannot make that change to existing election laws without the approval of the Legislature. So that is where the problem lies. So we'll see.
  • Fox news and baby Donald Trump has radicalized 70 millions of souls nation wide within all nationalities including thousands of poor Micronesians.. this a record breaking for the Devil
  • And even Fox News now admits that Biden won and Trump lost.

    Votes matter. Democracy matters. Truth matters.
  • Please note that news media, including Fox News, can only predict. Their predictions are based on the counts and/or projected counts. They don't decide the winner. So let's wait for all the legal votes to be counted; for the States to declare/certify the winners; for all the legal and credible challenges to be heard by appropriate Courts include SCOTUS.

    That's how it is supposed to go. That's how it has been in the past. As I noted earlier, Gore challenged the projections during the Gore-Bush presidential election. It took over 30 days before the Court made a final decision which awarded Bush the presidency. It's only been 7 days since the election. Trump has all the right to challenge results that he thinks are fraudulent or did not follow established procedures.
  • I seem to recall, Marc, that you are not a citizen of the United States. And yet you lecture us on how things are supposed to be. What makes you so damned smart? How did you earn the right to lecture us, and to be wrong on the facts, and yet claim superiority over us. How the fuck would you know how "it is supposed to go."

    You constantly refer to Bush v. Gore, but you don't have a clue about Bush v. Gore. You pontificate on how things are supposed to be, but what you come down to is the way things are "supposed to be" according to you.

    You are one tiring boor of a bore. Give it a rest. Go get a Green Card. Take the citizenship exam. Become a citizen and earn the right to lecture us on how "things are supposed to be" in your world.

    In the meantime, STFU, AH. Stop wagging your foul mouth.
  • Sarem, you know that I am right; and what I am saying are correct. There is nothing that can or should be done except wait for the vote counting to be completed including recounts; and states provide their certification; and the legal challenges to go thru. That's how it is. So don't celebrate yet; Biden has not won yet.

    As for me, my children and my siblings are voters and many reside in California. So I have an interest in advising them of their political views and options. Just because I am not a citizen, it does not mean I cannot understand or explain to some US citizens how the US election work.
  • Marc like Trump is a sore loser out of control , let's give them chance to heal they have until January the 20th and they can leave and go to jail.
  • Marc: When did Hillary Clinton concede to your Great Cult Leader? On November 9, 2016, one day after the election. She lost three states by a total of 77,000 votes, but instead of asking for recounts in those three states, or filing bullshit lawsuits, or playing golf, she acknowledged her loss, wished Trump well, and went on with her life.

    Did Hillary Clinton wait until all of the votes were counted "including recounts" and until states "provide [sic] their certification"? Did she wait until all of the legal challenges went through? Oh, that's right. There were no legal challenges. She didn't file any lawsuits. She didn't whine like a spoiled child or claim that the Russians caused it (and we may at some point discover that they did just that), or claim that the election was crooked or that foreigners had been bused over the border by the millions to vote illegally. She acknowledged her defeat and went on her business.

    I can see you now teaching your children and siblings about how things work here in the United States, and I pity their poor education. Your children have an ignorant man for a father. Your siblings are brothers and sisters of a man who found FOX News on the TV and a Cult Leader to follow and forced ignorance on himself and all of those around them. I pity them all. Too bad they didn't contribute to a fund to send you back to Micronesia.
  • Sarem and FactsMatter, you two are supposed to be smart people. If I understand it correctly you had been in Micronesia teaching Micronesians or doing service to Micronesians. Why are you so worked up about my comments? Why are you making your comments so personal?

    It's just a discussion forum. I am expressing my opinion which is in line with the Republicans' positions at this time. Both of you should take it easy; and let me and others express our own opinion without you trying to refute all the time.

    Why can't you just read my comments, look at it from my perspective, either agree or disagree with my comments; and stop reacting to them. I don't need your negative views to validate my views. I know I am right in things I am saying.
  • Because you are a liar, Marc, plain and simple. And I don't like liars. I don't like Trump, and I don't like you, and I don't like anyone who uses a public forum like this one to spread bullshit, lies, disinformation, and propaganda.

    But I would like your answer to one question. You have posited that the election process requires all legal challenges to be resolved, and all counting to be completed, and the final vote counts to be certified by the States, and only then can anyone truly declare a winner. You have said that when that happens, if Trump is certified as the LOSER (BIG L on the forehead LOSER), Trump will graciously concede.

    My question is, oh great elections intellect, when exactly does that happen? Isn't it true that the Trump Campaign could file a new legal challenge in a new State or in the same State it has already lost in, and just keep running the clock? WHACK A MOLE!!! Just today the campaign filed a new action in federal court in Michigan asserting different "irregularities" from those it has already lost on.

    According to your "process," fool, your Great Cult Leader could prevent the election counts from being certified by simply suing, over, and over, and over, and over again, ad nauseum. Is that the elections process that you are teaching your children and siblings, idiot? If you don't get your way, just keep suing?

    And what about the transition process? There is a law which governs transition matters, which is administered by the General Services Administration. Does your Dictator-in-Chief get to order the GSA to ignore the law until somebody makes him the winner?

    And what about the weekly intelligence briefings which have been presented to winning candidates since before you were born? Does your Great Orange Baboon get to prevent the Intelligence Community from providing these briefings to the putative winner until somebody cries uncle and says Trump can be the winner even though he got his ass kicked in the Electoral College and the popular vote?

    You haven't got answers to any of these questions, fool, because you don't believe it matters. All that matters is that Trump is declared winner, even if he is a big capital L LOSER!

    When do the legal challenges end, Marc? And if they end, and if the States certify that Trump is the unequivocal LOSER, will you graciously concede that you were wrong? Of course not. Trumpists are never wrong.

    Oh, and BTW, I really don't give a rat's ass what you need. You will believe you are right until the day you die, and even on that day (far in the future, one prays) you will tell one last lie to God, on your way to meet the Devil.
  • It will end after all the States have formally certified their results and when the Courts either turn down a request for hearing; or, if the Court decides against Trump.

    But if the SCOTUS agrees with Trump, then, the State which is the subject of the lawsuit will be obligated to either recount or delete votes that were counted in a way that is/was in violation of the State election laws.

    So, there is an end to it. All decisions must be completed by the date the College Electors are to gather, I believe its December 14, to vote on the President winner; to be counted by the Electoral College voter numbers. By that time, I am sure the SCOTUS and any other court will stop considering any legal challenges.
  • Marc: Somewhere in this thread or another thread, you said that the current president would "graciously" concede when all the votes had been counted, and all the court challenges had been decided against him, and the Supreme Court had rejected all pending challenges to the election before it.

    Today the Supreme Court ruled in the lawsuit Texas v. Pennsylvania, et al., as follows:

    The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot. Statement of Justice Alito, with whom Justice Thomas joins: In my view, we do not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction. See Arizona v. California, 589 U. S. ___ (Feb. 24, 2020) (Thomas, J., dissenting). I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.

    All the votes have been counted Marc, and the margin in favor of Biden is in excess of 7 million popular votes. Biden won the certified Electoral College Electors by 306 to 232, the same margin which the current president called a "landslide." There is not one lawsuit still pending. The current president's won-loss record in the suits filed in the several states is +/- 0 won, 55 lost.

    And the current president just lost before the United States Supreme Court less than twenty-four hours after the final briefs were filed. Before the Supreme Court: Trump 0, democracy 1.

    Where is the gracious concession, Marc? Perhaps the current president is busy. Would you like to graciously concede on his behalf?
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