• FSM nationals can become FSM citizens through existing mechanism. It has no bearing on repealing section 3.
  • Auchea SakaSaka, that's how my non legal understanding told me but I couldn't push it. If your supersede theory holds water, why all these fiasco waste funds schemes employed by our national Gov't. Now our top Law man is involved.
  • Doing away with section 3 will trigger susequent modification to current titles/codes, etc going forward, including the idea of citizen vs national. National exists because of section 3..
  • Tirow wom Kinen...supercede is only my own interpretation and rational to support my claim that section 3 is unnecessary because it interferes with section 2. Once citizen..u are citizen for life unless you choose to renounce your citizenship.
  • Taxi-womw whoever is responding to my email. That would be the best way to set the meeting up so I can get you in touch with the people who are willing to help. I been keep in touch asor.
  • Ok so we just saw another meeting set up on 7th Tuesday so I am assuming someone else already taking care of this. You guys got to plan better. We just told everyone who were hoping for later time to try to make it to this one. Let us know if there is other places for this meeting in Seattle so not everyone are running around trying to figure out which one is true? Would you please time listed for the meeting including the Kent WA at 1p?
  • edited February 2017
    Vote Yes for Dual citizenship. We are living in the globalized world and so the benefit outweigh the cost.

    Haglelgam open letter is a repeat of his thoughts of the past, a scare campaign tactic aim to ensure he remains true to his identity. If he talks about land then he should be worry as his low lying small island will be soon uninhabitable due to climate change. Then where will he go, or his children or relatives migrate to? Pohnpei bans non Pohneins to own land, Chuukese land are mostly clan assets etc. The USA offers opportunity to buy land if dual citizenship passes. And no there will be no foreigners running around buying land in the FSM as the states, not the FSM has jurisdiction over land. The FSM does not own land, only the parcel in Palikir--the capital.

    And what about Haglelgam claim on dual citizenship destroying or national identity. Surely he comes from somewhere in the universe, national identity is part of the current globalization process, not a relic of the past. So let the FSM be part of the current world process which dual citizens is part of. VOTE YES then.
  • Dual citizenship benefits only a select few. The select few will regret it immensely but will be too late to worry too brown to cry.
    VOTE NO. Improve what we already have and don't aspire for what is not 4 you.
  • Yir....long time. Welcome back!!
  • Kinen, just how/why will they regret?

    People need to stop getting away with simply making statements without backing them up. Sounds very Trumpism.
  • I think the FSM National Gov't is trying very hard to make some money out of Dual citizenship. Levy some kind of tax for the FSM citizens abroad. The people that are out of FSM reach for now are the fsmers born US citizens. Seeing that DC is very attractive to those individuals, national gov't. is camouflaging its intend with those silly/nonsense reasons. The dollar power is with them.
    See how the notorious Chuuk's AG became the writer of the proposed amendment and member of the ESG taskforce. He tried it, last year, with the Chuukese abroad but was met with great oppositions/reticules and maybe he dropped it. Now he is selling it to FSM National Gov't knowing very well that if those individuals fell for it, he sure will have the Chuukese who are US born citizens in his ÄPIMAR."
  • @Kinen, you are so wrong on this. The end result will not benefit the FSM Government at all. This will only affect people those whose are born in the U.S. and those that have one parent is American. That is it!

    The lack of sophistication by our people makes my point that we need better opportunity for some of us to reap the benefits of being dual citizens (better colleges, etc.). We are woefully dark that it is so sad.
  • edited February 2017
    From reliable source, dual is for all fSM citizens who are willing to be a US citizens as well! Not only for those kids born in the US by fsm citizens.
  • @Garim, let me tell you why your "reliable" source is either made-up or just not credible: I am Pohnpeian with both parents Pohnpeians from Kitti. I am full-bodied FSM citizen under the FSM Constitution. Suppose it's after March 2017 and the provision was dual citizenship is approved and I am now thinking of becoming a U.S. citizen. I would have to emigrate to the U.S., live there for a certain period under U.S. law and became a citizen for U.S. Before becoming one, under U.S. law, I would have to pledge allegiance to that Government and renounce my allegiance to the FSM as required by FSM law also (open one door, closes another). In other words, under that scenario, I can be a citizen of ONLY one of the two and I had chosen the U.S. That is the end. One can do that today also.

    You see, the dual citizenship is only for half Americans born anywhere in the world (under the U.S. Constitution) and those born in the U.S. because it makes one automatically U.S. citizen (under the U.S. Constitution) while FSM citizen also because one or both parents is also an FSM citizen (under the FSM Constitution). No dual is not for everyone.
  • Factsmatter, why then is the FSM National Gov't so adamant, spending money, we don't have much of, for its ratification? That's what I don't quite understand.
  • Good question, kinen. From my point of view, the government could use the internet, telephones, and mailings, instead of expensive travel, to accomplish their goal.

    Government-funded travel to the U.S. to visit family and friends - - and voters - has become an unfortunate micronesian tradition. It is a terrible waste of time and money, in my opinion.

    Regarding dual citizenship, I personally am not in favor of it for anyone, anywhere in the world. I have seen the many problems that result from it. I have shared these problems in some of my earlier postings on this subject.
  • And they could have done better on the timing and substance of education. I, for one, don't encourage the idea. I think it won't service any social benefits, what so ever, to the people of the Nation. Except, if my wild tax levy thought, was a consideration.
  • Kinen, I think no nation has enough money to satisfy all it desires. However, it must prioritize what it thinks necessary to benefit its citizens. Face-to-face community engagement is the way to move forward on this dual citizenship issue. Internet engagement to me is not that effective as it is more individualized and lacks the spirit of community discussion and thus cohesion. In this respect I would exclude the point from Factsmatter that government travel has been incorporated into our cultural system---far from it. The USA hosts many FSM citizens and the compact generation many of whom will be asking many questions. To remain at the domestic level with this dual issue curtail their rights to be heard.

    Personally, those who are against dual citizenship need to expand their horizon. The fact remains that there are more than 40 thousand people who will be affected by this core constitutional issue. The fact remains that individual citizen must decide whatever they want to do with their future. Dual citizenship is part of such individual future decision one that need not be discouraged by anyone. VOTE YES as it makes more sense in this day and age.
  • Know your audience Yir, who is the target group, community in Tol or Ta who doesn't care about the issue or fsmers abroad who are modern technology freaks that prefer the comfort of home, school or work for meaningful discussion. This saves money, time, energy, face, etc, etc. There's no other suitable audience for the DC but fsmers abroad. Give it to them wholeheartedly. Don't föri ren anapanap nge ese fiti Tong. Angotaronap (short cuts) is cheating them more than educating them.
    VOTE NO on DC.
  • To kinen's point, one financial drawback of dual citizenship is the potential for double taxation, a situation in which you owe income taxes to two countries. The U.S. imposes taxes on its citizens for income earned anywhere in the world, so if you are a dual citizen living abroad, you may owe taxes in the U.S. for income earned abroad, plus owe taxes in the country where you earned the income.

  • Now you are talking Factsmatter. That's my greatest worry about the DC issue. I have raised it sporadically in other sites but no one seems to pay attention.
  • FM, I call BS on your "facts." There is a limit on tax on U.S. citizens abroad. I recall it to be $70,000. You are only taxed if you make more than $70,000. That is why Americans here do not pay U.S. tax. Let me guess: Alternative Facts? We need to be fair and tell share truths. Or simply do not make up "facts."
  • lihndanpei; The bible verse you referred to 6 days in your post is Gospel of Mathew 6:24.
  • Yes, there is a U.S. income exclusion, but it only applies to private sector employees, not to U.S. government employees. And all U.S.citizens, dual or not, are required to file annual income tax returns with the IRS.

    The FSM can, and does, collect taxes from all wage earners living in the FSM, dual citizen or not. Only diplomats and U.S. military personnel are exempt from FSM taxes....but they still are required to pay U.S. taxes.
  • Give FM the benefit of the doubt, ms2014, you may both be overreaching a bit. To me double taxation (or limits on taxes on US citizen income earned abroad) is not an issue, because I believe (I could be wrong) that both nations credit taxes paid on income in the other country against taxes owed on all income, so it should be pretty much a wash.

    If it were me, the decision should be based on how FSM national and state considerations involving the right to own land in the FSM are affected by dual citizenship. If you were born in the US of Pohnpeian parents, and are a US citizen over the age of 18, how can you own any land in Pohnpei? FSM citizenship is required as a condition of owning land in the FSM, and each state has similar laws.

    As land is passed by inheritance, a fully Pohnpeian child of Pohnpeian parents, born in the US and with a US passport, cannot inherit his great-grandparents traditional land. Dual citizenship solves that problem, and gives children born in the US of Pohnpeian (or Kosraean, Chuukese, or Yapese) parents the traditional rights they would have but for the accident of their place of birth. And at the same time permitting acquisition of US citizenship, to those who qualify, something that used to be a worthy goal.

    Just a thought.
  • I had discussed at length months back my support for dual citizenship on educational and economic reasons mostly. I did say that Micronesian-Americans will be able to own land (thereby "returning of our lost people"). If the dual citizenship is approved, U.S. citizens who are also Micronesians citizens would be allowed to own land now. Now they have to choose between U.S. citizenship and land-owning and thereby being part of Micronesia is many way. College opportunities beyond Pell Grant (relied heavily but not enough for better schools) will multiply thereby giving more Micronesian-Americans more opportunity to get advanced degrees. Again, currently people who are eligible for both citizenship have had to choose between better education (U.S. citizenship) and lands (FSM citizenship). The general ability to make more money for those that can become officers in the military and other economic benefits at work. Many people will be able to get security clearance for big private security firms if they are dual citizens (born in U.S. or born to one parent being U.S. and one parent being FSM citizen). The reasons are long. The opposition is arguing right past that on some "loss of identity" and as fallacy that all are qualified for dual citizenship thereby a big change when the real big change was the 1986 Compact.
  • edited February 2017
    Of course sons and daughters who were/are born and have connection to the FSM by blood (mixed marriage or full blown FSM marriage) will continue to own land by inheritance. Cultures of the FSM said so, not the artificially modern day constitutional construct. The Constitution recognizes traditions and so why should citizenship dilute that traditional rights. For example, if you are a member of a clan and has connection to the land does that mean one looses that right because of the Constitution. I think not. The lawyers are misleading the audience by referring to the Constitution and yet forget to consider historical connection to the land like the section which refers to the configuration of Micronesia in terms of land and tradition. Predicting that the FSM will impose tax on its diaspora is just not part of the equation re: dual citizenship. It is a fiction at its best. Kinen my audience is large, wide and far reaching. Dual citizenship does open up many opportunities in different ways like Microspring stated so I believe. So Yes again on many counts. Dual citizenship it is.
  • Now thoughts on the DC issue are starting to fall into proper perspective if what you, Yir, stated above hold any water. Now taxation, it's a far fetched wonder but we shouldn't dismiss it arbitrarily. The national govt has the power to wake up one morning and enact and approve a law that will bind us to its mandate how ever so it desires.
    Far fetched but national govt can do it. Yes, it surely can.
  • @Yir, I wish your statement that "Of course sons and daughters who were/are born and have connection to the FSM by blood (mixed marriage or full blown FSM marriage) will continue to own land by inheritance" holds legal merit. I can assure you that Pohnpeians have lost lands because they have chosen U.S. citizenship over FSM. I know that because I am smack dab middle of the matter.
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