Former FSM President on Dual Citizenship act

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Comments

  • Basically an ultimatum, lose our US retirement or not have a home and voice in FSM. All okay with me and I am a pro when it comes to finding loopholes. I have to apologize to Microspring2014 if my comments are condescending. I am speaking as a mom. I do sound like a mad mom or Ameicans call em Soccer moms....lol

    I am aware of your views growing up. Bullied the half white kids in my elementary school except family. I didn't like other nationalities even half Micronesias to have what I HAD.

    This thread doesn't apply to me then. This just remind me not to get involved in FSM politics because my child has no future here.

    I do get the point of non-US citizen having the dual citizenship status. US has FSM as a national country. I guess we can't all be happy here. Your children basically have more advantage in this country. I hope the Trump administration is reading this.

    Like I said before, this is a touchy subject but in the next 10-20 years. There will be more US born children, maybe more than FSM citizens, most with both Microneisan parents. What then?
  • M&M...
    Nice try. You can only be in one place at a time..so no worries. We got to lean forward...
  • SakaSaka, why don't we just give up the BS dual citizenship and just join the united States of America? We all become citizens of the united states? This will resolve all our concern no? It will no longer benefit the few but all of us both FSM born and US born children. Let's stop the BS on the so called sovereign or independent country. That way we will be eligible for ALL US government funds requires and we develope our Country with all US congress appropriations needed, our government will be rich and fair to refunds taxes..lol..How is that for the US benefits for all?
  • sokehsrock, the issue here is of paramount importance. No BS. It is to assist those who have been affected and will continually be affected by loosing their rights as citizens of the FSM. It is not for people who are not in such situation. Why is that you have to include those who are not affected? The real issue here is not about money; it's merely about renouncing their FSM citizenship because of such stupid section 3 of article III of the FSM Constitution. Due to the influx of FSM citizens migrating to the US, the numbers of children born in the US are at a higher rate and these are the ones the intent of the amendment wants to have them retaining their FSM citizenship in order for them to contribute to FSM in the future knowing that they are citizens. If we keep the status quo, all of them will certainly renounce their FSM citizenship and become nationals.
  • @lihndanpei, you disagree with me and yet you confirm what I believe. This is a touchy subject and most people including yourself are unable to take a step back and look at it objectively without using your child / parenting experiences.
    If you took away all those touchy feelings.... (possible?) and looked at it... asked questions (without getting angry and telling everyone about your personal experiences).... what would it look like?
    I fear we may never get there.
  • @micromatter, I'm a mom above all other responsibilities. I'm not gonna ignore my feelings about my child's future in this thread. Maybe this is the one place I need to just step back and let you guys figure this out. Let us in or not, it's all in your hands. I'm not going to put my personal experience in here because I FEEL like most people here have one perspective. We'll just agree to disagree on the views. It's this the whole point of this conversation?

    I'm simply voicing my concerns. I honestly can't look at the subject without getting a bit emotional. We're talking about the future of all the children out there, going to school and have no idea that FSM will soon treat them like foreigners. I have chose to stick with the country that will last longer for the sake of my kid's future. I still have a lot of love for Micronesia where I will always call my home. Having a progressive perspective goes against many local values. In my personal opinion, voting this bill down will have negative consequences and only block progress towards development. You will take away one of the few reasons to come back home.
  • It's less than a week now before we flock to the polls to vote on the DC issue, yet it gets more complicated each passing day with all the biased arguments. Why don't we just stay the present course {leave the Const. alone] and live our own local dreams without desiring somethings not ours in the first place. I don't see any arm in letting them live and be citizen of their birth places and when they eventually decide to come home, by all means, they are welcomed with open hands, hearts and Constitutions. Since I'm Chuukese, I will speak as such. When one of my priced grand children decides to come back home to CKUUK, NO national/state official could dare tell him/her that my house/parcels of land ARE NOT his/hers. Their ownership titles to my properties existed way before the inception/idea of DC came about. ONCE A CHUUKESE, ALWAYS A CHUUKESE. VOTE NO on DC proposal.
  • They are foreigners; born in a foreign land, live in a foreign land, by the choice of the parent when they were minors, and by their own choice when they attained the age of 18 years.

    They can come to the FSM and gain FSM citizenship. There is no law preventing it.

    What the FSM Constitution framers did was to ensure there is no dual citizenship. They wanted full and undivided loyalty.

    Now some people out of selfishness want dual citizenship. Simple as that.
  • Thank you @Kinen. It's always nice to hear your words of wisdom. Brings a little comfort in these times. I'll ignore the latest comment. I've made peace with my decision. I know I have a bright future for me and my nuclear family. I'll let you all figure this one out. Don't talk about loyalty @truthisthat, you haven't shown any here. Loyalty is not to the land but to the people. The land and constitution will not talk back and stand up when things crumple under COFA. We will and we have a voice in America where all the real decisions are made.
  • @lihndanpei thanks for your reply.

    The only perspective I have is that of one living in FSM. What other perspective should we have?

    Be progressive all you want, please! Innovate, make and create..... for FSM.

    You are the land, you are the constitution and you are the decision maker. All of us.




  • Oh don't mind me. I've officially eject myself from this thread. I'll keep an eye/ear out for the results soon. Happy hump day everyone.
  • Lenwo, Ran annim, Mogethin, Kaselehlie maingko oh pil koarusie.

    I cannot vote in this particular election, but if I could, I would vote "No". Below is my explanation for why. Before I explain, you may appreciate knowing that I am a US Citizen; my username is also my real life name. I work for the Pohnpei Department of Education, previously lived in Paliais and currently live in Kolonia, though for the purpose of this discussion I represent only myself: a US Citizen who happens to love the FSM, including the notion of FSM sovereignty.

    It all comes down to the Prisoner's Dilemma. Imagine you and I rob the Bank of the FSM. We get caught. The police put each of us into an isolated cell; I can't see or hear you, you can't see or hear me.

    The police tell you that they will make you a deal. Right now, the evidence shows that, if we both stay quiet, we each get 5 years of prison. But if you say it was all my idea, and I say nothing, you'll go free tomorrow; I'll get 20 years of prison. Conversely, if I say it was your idea, and you say nothing, I'll go free and you get 20 years of prison. If we both say it was the other person's idea, we each get 10 years.

    The ideal outcome in the above situation is that we both stay quiet. But the best outcome for you is that you say it's my fault; the best outcome for me is to say it's your fault. And if we betray each other, well, that's worse than if we cooperated the whole time.

    Where the Prisoner's Dilemma becomes more interesting is when it's played out many times with the same actors. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, for example, MIT created a number of programs, 1,000 instances of each, playing them against each other. We had a Satan program, that always betrayed; a Jesus program, that always allied; and we had a Forgive and Forget program, that once betrayed would betray once itself, and then would ally again.

    The only program that could survive, long-term, was the Forgive and Forget program, and thus was the rationale for JFK to not escalate the Cuban Missile Crisis. Mathematically speaking, the best outcome for the society is also--in the long term!--the best outcome for the individual, though it's by no means the fastest.

    An economy is a pot of gold. When I make a sakau market, like my wife's brother June, the buyer lives on Pohnpei, so the gold originates on Pohnpei, and thus we are stirring the pot--the gold is being spread around. When I go to the Phillippines for medical issues, that gold is leaving the pot, into the hands of another country. Our pot is small, and reliant on foreign aid--while dual citizenship may result in more gold in the pot, we risk losing ownership of the pot itself. In Haiti, for example--the first country to outlaw slavery--while foreign oppression has no doubt played a significant role in the common person's suffering, so too has the abandonment of the working class by the nation's wealthy, educated elite.

    I make a local FSM wage despite numerous opportunities to work in New Zealand or the United States for far more wealth and, in reality, a higher quality of life for myself and my wife. The primary reason I remain here is that I love this country, and want to see it flourish. I know that it can. Should the day come that I can be so lucky as to be able to walk into Palikir, my FSM citizenship application in hand, I would gladly give up my previous citizenships in order to become an FSM citizen, if it means I can help the dream of meaningful FSM sovereignty become true.

    The FSM needs more options to provide its citizens better and more numerous opportunities at home. I am not convinced, however, that saying YES to this issue is the long-term solution to this dilemma.

    That's my view on the issue. Thank you for reading my thoughts on this important matter.

    Ni wahu,

    -Richard Clark
  • There is so much lack of understanding on this issues on dual citizenship. Very sad but not surprised. Even typically smart people have become "rock solid."

    People were running around like chicken with their heads cuts off on the notions of FSM citizens getting deported (I recall from the hoopla when a senator introduced a bill to end the Compact, criminals in Guam being sent back the Governor, Chuuk's thought of leaving the federation, the entire election of Trump, etc.) yet allowing some of our few FSM citizens the opportunity to have a second passport and the benefits of the coveted U.S. citizenry, has somehow become appalling. We want to have our cakes and eat them too. Is it stupidity or plain jealousy? It would be like the crab complex. When a few a about to get out, the rest just reach up pull those about to get out back into the mix.
  • When I fote Yes it means improving the lives of the few who already have better lives in the US and leave the most in fsm who are struggling everyday! Fote NO!
  • I like Microspring's analogy of the crabs complex..."When a few about to get out, the rest just reach up pull those about to get out back into the mix"

    But I think Richard Clark made more sense when he said, "The FSM needs more options to provide its citizens better and more numerous opportunities at home."

    If you think about the crab complex story, it is all about WANTING TO GET OUT. So why would you ask for dual citizenship if you want to get out? Assuming that you are a US citizen the leaving the FSM for better opportunities was the reason you left the FSM in the first place. I don't see how being able to hold two citizenship would make things better than they are already.

    Like Richard Clark, I also fail to see how dual citizenship will help the folks who remain and work for a better FSM within FSM's borders

  • The former President is a wimp for not standing up for his own grandchildren who were born in the USA. You should not have ever backstab your own people like this. shame on you!
  • Vote NO and keep your citizenship status. Don't talk back at the few who have made it in other countries as professionals and know progress. I am not preaching to a choir here. Idiocracy is what I see. I don't care anymore, keep this little land but we will come in and take the better jobs, create businesses and take what we can to lease lands and create opportunities. This is no obstacle but a neusance. @microspring2014, you last comment is a joke.

    Last I check, this country cannot fund it's own government and the few citizens I see can't even figure out what us MS Office Pro when I ask. Keep everything to yoursleves now... it's only a matter of time before all the archor baby parents will hit the land and we'll sit back and watch the economy crumple.
  • edited March 2017
    Vote no@errr, you should be ashame of yourself calling H.E. a wimp. His children are good US citizens getting good education, why you said he backstab them cuz of dual citizenship? H.E. is a countryman and he stood up for his country. His reason is way very important like onofel refers to of paramount importance. Onofel dual citizenship issue is not an issue of paramount importance when it is a concern of only few, especially when it is an issue that FSM will not get any problem if it ignores. But what's of a paramount importance is FSM open dual citizenship and bring problem that associated with into the nation. See Richard Clark is enjoying here in FSM working in Pohnpei DOE with his US passport. No problem. I also have a coworker micro US citizen that got hired among many applicants because of her educational background and qualifications. No need to be dual.
  • you all are hatred Micronesian supremacists, and I hate you former President for instating and blocking this opportunity for my thousands of bros and sis who will not be able to get there chance as real life blood fsm cits because of people like you ....fyi, they are sons and daughters of 100% FSM parents...VOTE YES, bibba!!!
  • duh! @errr, they are still Micronesian by blood but US in citizenship. Ethnicity Pacific islander/Micronesian. They are Micro-Americans. H.E. Haglelgam was not the one who blocked them. It's our constitution, and the former President is just upholding the Constitution. Those son and daughters of 100% FSM parents still can be 100% FSMers if they renounced their US citizenship and live like all 100% FSMers. Not 50% FSM and 50% US. Thank you. Vote No to dual.
  • M&M, why don't you stop twisting my words around smart ass. I am not concerned about technicality of the bill or the law. I want all the people who wishes to become both FSM citizens that are benefiting from being US cits to have their options so stop redirecting my points smart ass! They are out there in thousands and people like you with extremist views only ignite their fire to strike back, they will call on their families in FSM, you just wait and see when Vote Yes wins.
  • NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO... it only benefit some people...70% at home will not benefit from this ...only the ones abroad will benefit....
  • youaresorry, you know that Pohnpeian-American that chose FSM citizenship and could not become an officer in the military and thus the difference between $30,000 and $100,000 a year, will instead of transmitting $1,000 a month, will instead transmit $2,500. You know that grand daughter that could have two passports but is limited to FSM only because of Article III, Section 3, who is only using Pell Grant and the unreliable FSM Scholarship, now can have many sources and free our our funds back home for getting our house renovated. Stop the stupid fear. Instead of a household full of immigrants, you will have a house will 5 U.S. citizens/FSM citizens and 2 only-FSM citizens. Think about the social benefits. Those Micronesian-American will never face deportation but once you renounce U.S. citizenship at 21 years old in favor of FSM citizenship only, you are game for deportation if Donald Trump figures out how to group us with others. No, those that will benefit are all of us back home on many levels. Vote yes.
  • @Microspring2014. Thank you for pushing your views forward. This place is invested with nay says and have no idea what real struggle is with these citizenship status. If given an ultimatum, all the smart families will choose US over FSM. What does FSM have to offer aside from a parcel of land in a very hot, humid weather and people stuck in their confused culture? Sakau is for wahu, not daily market for the lazy government employees fyi.

    Moving to FSM with a huge asking price on wage still puts me at 28% of what I used to make in US and this is just Jan-Oct income. Imagine the loss all our children will face when coming home and the cost of imported junk in the stores are outrageous. WAKE UP!!! I didn't see any benefit of keeping my FSM citizenship before and certainly don't see it now. Your comments in here reminds me of why I left in the first place and why I changed my citizenship without a blink when given a chance to. YOUR OPINIONS is the root cause of brain drain.

    I know I'm making a general statement here and not speaking on behalf of all Mico-Americans. I hope you read and re-read Microsprings2014 comments and get a grip. Took me 2 days to calm down and come back to this thread. Vote NO or YES, the bottom line is that this doesn't affect the US children. They will always choose the greatest nation as their home. Schools, jobs and everything is there, not to mention acceptance over diversity. I will say living in US gives me a sense of home and acceptance I've never had growing up in Micronesia. People are too ignorant, have no education and always give bias poor advice.

    Happy Friday all and Hope this thread helps those who are still confused about where to lean. Have an open perspective and think about development. Every nation is based on Immigration and the greatest era in FSM was under foreign governance. I hate to say this but it's absolutely true.
  • LOL no no no haha
  • Thank you @RichardAndrewClark. Appreciate your perspective.

    We have lived for so long under the US or some foreign power that now when we have our own country we don't even know what to do with it. We are afraid and ashamed to align ourselves with a nation that we have no sense of connection to, our own. We are used to what was and rather stay with the familiar because it is all we know. The US is familiar to us and not the FSM.

    Take the emotion out of this argument and look objectively at this proposed law.
    There is no direct impact to the children of the FSM, in fact they have been forgotten for the most part. Which one of you who favors dual citizenship has a child in public school in FSM or who is not covered by health insurance? If you don't, then you probably don't understand why this proposed bill is a waste of time, effort and resources.

    Ask not what the US can do for you, but what YOU can do for the FSM.






  • @micromatter, you are making up arguments base out of opinions and not facts. The FSM children get FREE compact money, born into privilege whether or no their families paid for taxes or not. I beg the differ here.

    Taking out emotions from this thread would mean taking out logic and humanity. Dual citizenship focus on solutions for Micronesians born abroad to come back home. BIGGEST issue in this nation is BRAIN DRAIN!!

    I don't know how many time I have to explain myself before people can get that blocking other citizenship will only hurt FSM, NOT THE CHILDREN but the Nation's development. LOOK around you and tell me where the elite FSM citizen children are? Most left and found better opportunities.

    Children where will still get COFA money without this bill. How is this leaving them out. How about you stop pushing for a politics agenda and get some real solutions on the ballot? This country can't even control the passport machine and get their employees at immigration to conduct business as professionals. I'm guessing this dual citizenship will only confuse them out and.... make them think hard??!!! Lol... I can't help my sarcasm.

    Happy Friday everyone. I will chime in next week. Great weekend to go out and look at dirty politics in action. I will take some pictures and let those outside see the kind of nonsense this nation is into. Just unbelievable.
  • Micromatter, let me try to answer you in this matter:


    We have lived for so long under the US or some foreign power that now when we have our own country we don't even know what to do with it. Dual citizenship will continue to allow us to run our country. U.S. will not get involved at all. The Compact makes U.S. involvement more realWe are afraid and ashamed to align ourselves with a nation that we have no sense of connection to, our own. We are used to what was and rather stay with the familiar because it is all we know. The US is familiar to us and not the FSM. Dual citizenship will keep us in the country because otherwise most children turning 21 will choose U.S. over the FSM as the rest of the world is. If we allow dual citizenship, then we will keep our Micronesians who are qualified to be U.S. citizens because we'd allow them citizenship of two countries.

    Take the emotion out of this argument and look objectively at this proposed law.
    There is no direct impact to the children of the FSM, in fact they have been forgotten for the most part. Which one of you who favors dual citizenship has a child in public school in FSM or who is not covered by health insurance? If you don't, then you probably don't understand why this proposed bill is a waste of time, effort and resources. I do not fully understand these sentences but our health and education are FULLY paid by U.S. but mismanaged by us. It means high schools that cannot send children to the U.S. college-ready. We live off U.S. and then at the same time abhor it like the plague. We enjoy it when we go there. We watch their movies, NBA and programs as the rest of the world. Most of you remind of of the envious neighbor that complains of the hard worker next door.

    Ask not what the US can do for you We don't need to ask because our leaders do that for us since 1986 and we are seeking to extent it after 2023, but what YOU can do for the FSM there is no development in our country despite millions that were pumped into our economies by Chinese, Japanese, Australian and Americans tax payers money. We want to sound proud but we cannot do it alone.

    Allowing a few of our citizens to become foreign citizens while keeping the FSM citizenship will not hurt us. It will only benefit us. Let us stop talking like we do not need the world because every country need others to grow
  • A big Fat NOOO!
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