Chuuk Secession



  • So, in the end, if Chuuk's current secession leadership can peel Chuuk away from the FSM, I just wish for the following:

    There will be accommodation for Chuukese who have already decided to live and work in the US; to continue to do the same without interruption and difficulty.

    That the immigration status of the Chuukese currently living in the states will be continued as is; and not fall under the category of being limited by visa application requirements. That they don't have to wait in line for visa approval in order to enter to the US including Guam, Hawaii, etc.

    Currently, Chuukese, like other FAS citizens can enter the US without much problem; can work; live; go to school; access programs and assistance for food, education, health, etc. Let's wish that the new Chuuk negotiators can get the US to agree to continue these privileges while they also try to negotiate for similar type of privileges from China or other countries that the Chuukese leadership might choose to partner with.

    If some of these are not possible, at least, get the US to give Chuukese several years of probationary period--to allow them time to close out their personal matters or business; so they can move out of the US and relocate to China or other locations.

    Just wishes, on behalf of my many Chuukese friends, on this nice Friday afternoon in Pohnpei.
  • sinbad every single penny you had paid into the system is yours until death do you.
    This is a civilized world. Mechanisms are in place and will be in place so not one is inconvenienced unnecessarily.
    Here we go again with Truth's unfounded hatred towards Chuuk.
    Hate is a SIN dear.
  • Thanks marc for your genuine concern.
    Please don't magnify that China thing because it is NEVER a Chuuk secession vocabulary.
  • Now, that's very encouraging. And I thank you kin for the assurance.

    That now leaves with the question with regards to Stovall's remark about Chuukese in the US should we pursue inependence. He implied that should Chuuk vote to be separated from FSM, there would not be any form of political relationship with the US, thus, expulsion from America and its jurisdictions. Is it the case? This, I think, should be something that the commissioners Must let known to the people, most especially the ones who have gone abroad seeking greener pasture for themselves and to financially support loved ones here in the islands. I'd love to support independence but these are a couple of the hurdles that raise doubts in the hearts of the undecided few leaving us to VOTE NO.

  • And thank you kinen, because I had always been under the impression that that would be the case.
  • I am neither a lawyer or a politician but I take some solace in Mr. Wainit opinions regarding the separation issue. He may be wrong on some issues but I think he is right on the automatic loss of status.
  • Kinisou pwipwi sinbad. Sipue kan chok pusin nensiripwei nonomuch iei me pekinon pun site mandino ikà e puunguiti kich ute-kusuchon.
  • Sandman-the constitution is part of this issue regarding Chuuks secession. The only reason the supreme court is silent on this issue is because its legal. That's the only reason i can think of as why the supreme court is silent.

    If the Chuukese people vote yes then the US will honor it.
  • IronYouth, I beg to differ. The Supreme Court is silent because the issue has not been brought before it (no one has filed a case dealing with this specific issue). The Supreme Court's silence does not mean that it is legal.
  • If China is not part of the consideration for Chuuk secession, then, some things probably ought to be kept in mind because it seems that is what has been said by many people. Chuuk secession leaders think that they will get a better deal from the US after they pull away from the FSM; because they will play US against China in future negotiations.

    It sounds good enough but just remember the geopolitical positions that the US and China are beginning to play in the world stage. US has asked China to intervene with North Korea. And it is reported that China had already sent a top diplomatic delegation to NoKo to try to promote the denuclearization agenda that US President Trump is pushing now.

    I think it'll be an act of folly and miscalculation to think that an independent Chuuk will be able to pit China against the US; in order to extract what Chuuk wants. The US can simply says "no" to what Chuuk wants; and tell China to stay away; and not cause problems to the US in this side of the Pacific. It is possible. I think it'll be a miscalculation on the highest order to think that China will take side with Chuuk against the US.

    But since it has been said that China is not in the calculation by the Chuuk secessionists, then, I guess that's one less thing any FAS citizen will have to worry about. Just some thoughts on this nice day.
  • Mr. Stoval legal opinion if Chuuk voted for secession is wrong. The facts he presented were mostly assumptions. One of which is that all Chuukese aboard be "automatically" deported. How can it be if the secession is not yet official and the Chuukese aboard are still FSM citizens?!
  • Thank you Marc and Serekin Noufich for your last two comments, which are the truths that the Commission has been operating by (but people just seem to be so argumentative, they do not want to accept them when the Commissioners raise those points):

    1. Marc is right, that is the Commission's point on the future relationship between a Chuuk Republic and either the US and China. Chuuk Commissioners have explained many times that there is no intention for a Chuuk Republic to have any military or security agreement with the People's Republic of China. Diplomatic and economic relations of course are allowed, just as the FSM currently has diplomatic and economic relations with China. It is insulting for people to think that the Chuuk Political Status Commissioners are stupid, or do not understand international relations to think that they would want the new Chuuk Republic to forge some kind of a military relations with China at the expense of the US security interest in the area. There are three reasons why the Chuuk Commissioners DO prefer to maintain relations with the US : (1) Most of the Chuuk Commissioners are former American college students; they understand and value the democratic culture of human rights and democratic governments. They understand that although the new Chuuk Republic will need at least $20 million annual foreign assistance from China, they also understand they need to have their people live in democratic governmental institutions based on respect for peoples' individual liberties and the rule of law. Those are the foundations also for a new Chuuk Republic; (2) the Chuuk Commissioners have families living in the US by virtue of the existing Compact relations; the Commission is not looking for a future political status that will endanger the rights of the families living in the US; (3) for a new Chuuk Republic to be able to secure a separate Compact arrangement with the US, Chuuk has to recognize one of the US' fundamental interests in the region which is "strategic denial." You look at the Security Provision of the Amended Compact, even the Compact Trust Fund Agreement which provides that when the FSM does something to undermining the US strategic interest, the US would withdraw all its contributions to the Compact Trust Fund.

    2. Serekin Noufich is right that Mr Stovall is WRONG on the point that when the Chuukese people vote in the Affirmative at their plebiscite, the Chuukese people's Compact rights will automatically cancel. If you compare carefully James Stovall's point with the FSM Department of Justice's Legal Opinion you will find a glaring contradiction between those two. And to analyse the issues more carefully, the Department of Justice is closer to the truth, that "even if the Chuukese people voted YES for Secession, their FSM rights will not automatically cancel, or they will not automatically secede from the FSM because they will first have to amend the FSM Compact on the boundaries of their new territories and also establish a new constitution to rule their new nation and negotiate some of the transition issues..." I am proud and have more confidence in our Department of Justice's own analysis of the issue than Mr Stovall's rather hasty viewpoints, using the "scarying tactic" of the old boy who used to cry "wolf, wolf, wolf" that the people got fed up with him and decided not to listen to him anymore.

    Please continue your search for the truth, clarifying the issues and questions surrounding our Chuuk Independence Movement. It is so amazing how people can just believe all the ignorance and disinformation, without reasoning out some of the issues which any educated person can easily deduce from all the available information.
  • The constitution is being questioned here. And when it is the supreme is supposed to assert itself. Some say this is illegal well the Supreme is silent. Check and balance. If this was illegal it would have been nipped at the bud long time ago. But then again it never has been nipped. Look to the constitution for it gives the route needed to take to secede. Why does the constitution gives the legal route if it was illegal? Another thing for us to ponder and think about. No pledge of allegiance to affirm unity. No specific laws or wiriting on the constitution that is specifically against secession whatsoever.

    I am not for or against just a observer who sees the holes in the constitution and also see that there is no precedence in this federation that forbids this.
  • IronYouth, can you identify specifically where in the Constitution it actually states that secession from the FSM is a possibility?

    I am not for nor am I against secession however we need to be practical when it comes to ideas that confuse the public and in the long term exhausts funds that are necessary to the well being of Chuuk State.

    If this is basically a lost cause then instead of wasting money and resources to such a cause, the Chuuk Leadership to look towards how to become a sustainable State.

    Chuuk has the best beaches and some of the most beautiful islands in the FSM. These are great resources that can be tapped to generate revenue.

    I have always been confused at why the leadership of Chuuk have sought to secede from the FSM. Does it not have the highest share of funding annually per State from the Compact as well as annual tax revenue even though it does not have the highest revenue generation? By deciding to secede, does Chuuk believe they will be receiving a larger compact funding agreement by itself as a Nation of its own then if it were to stay with the FSM?

    We all know Chuuk has a difficult time generating its own revenue so if by chance there was a sliver of a possibility Chuuk can secede, how does it expect to become sustainable when presently it is unable to do so?

    I seriously believe we all have a better chance of negotiating for an extension of a new compact before 2023 and with more beneficial terms then if we were to show ourselves up as a divided Nation.

    Lastly, is Chuuk willing to walk away from FSM's Trust Fund that is now over half a billion dollars?

  • The first step to this snowden is for them to vote if they want to secede. Which they are about to take. And like mentioned countless times the supreme court haven't deemed this step illegal. The supreme is silent on this part because the constitution does not say it is therefore the silence from the supreme court. Its a lost cost for the nay sayers but not to the ones that want to secede.
  • IronYouth, I strongly believe Chuuk State has the legal right to vote on whether it wants to secede from the Nation, don't get me wrong on that however once Chuuk does actually vote to secede. Then and only then can the Supreme Court intervene provided the FSM A/G and the National Government files a case against Chuuk citing that Chuuk State cannot secede without a majority vote from all the four States of the FSM.

    You need to understand that the FSM Supreme Court is bound by the Separation of Powers written into our constitution, they cannot intervene unless a case is filed in its court.

    So let me ask you this question, if Chuuk State is so sure they are in the right, why have they not filed a case in the FSM Supreme Court requesting Chuuk secede from the FSM? This way, the FSM Supreme Court is forced to make a decision and basically ends all arguments regarding the legality of this Chuuk Secession situation.
  • Let the Chuukese people exercise their voting rights before we flood this forum with our personal interpretation of the issue.
  • Wise idea, Kinen.

    And Snowden, I think it is the Compact Trust Fund that is more than one half of a billion dollars in principal balance at present. The FSM Trust Fund is still under a quarter of a billion, I believe.

    And for all of our information, Chuuk State would seek legal remedies claiming its shares in both trust funds if worse comes to worse on the road to Secession. Like you asked, why walk away from such investments??
  • Thank you Taxi, and how do you propose in doing that? What legal remedies are we talking about?
  • In what court(s) of law would "Chuuk legal remedies claiming its shares in both trust funds"?
  • I know it's easy to say that non-Chuukese should stay away from this discussion on the idea of Chuuk secession.

    For me, I do believe that Chuukese have the right to vote to approve or disapprove whatever that the leadership put on the ballot. So that is not the issue.

    The issue is how will the Chuuk secession affect the whole federation (FSM). Will it cause it to fall apart? Will Pohnpei or Yap or Kosrae be the next?

    It's like a marriage that was entered into with good intentions. But now the other wants a divorce. So we'll need to talk about rights, dividing up resources, Compact allocation for the FSM, the Trust Fund, the Social Security, etc. -- all have been mentioned.

    It's not that some of us don't want Chuuk to seek their independence. It's how it'll be done in legal, constitutional and appropriate way so that others don't get hurt.
  • Oh, my bad for being unclear. I apologize. When I say "legal remedies" I also include seeking legislation through the FSM Congress, mandating distribution of the trust funds returns among the investors/owners/beneficiaries, which means all the five FSM entities.

    That is part of the Chuuk Commission game plan: that if the people ratified the Secession Option in the Plebiscite now being proposed for March 2019, then Chuuk will call a constitutional convention to draft a Chuuk Republic constitution, and at the same time, work with the FSM to put such legislation in place, providing for distributions of Chuuk's shares from those trust funds, from the FSM Social Security, from the FSMDB IDF, from the FSM Climate Fund, those kinds of funds that Chuuk was entitled to as an investor/owner when they came into being. It's basically just a division of community properties, if you will.
  • Taxi, thanks for taking the time to clarify some the Commission's positions regarding the secession option. You say the Commission: 1. will not pit Chinese against the US particularly with respect to military matters; 2. will try not to hurt the FSM but will work with the FSM leadership regarding transitional matters including the principle of "division of community properties". These type of approaches will allay some fears by non-Chuukese going forward. Good luck.
  • Not to seem negative but looking at it from a purely technical perspective, wouldn’t Chuuk automatically forfeit all its rights, including their portion of the trust fund since technically, Chuuk would be abandoning the Nation?
  • There is no specific wiriting on the constitution that prohibits Chuuk or any of the other states from secession. The only thing that can hinder snd get in the way of any one states from the FSM from secede is the state citizen's. Look England and Brexit. Brits voted yes and guess what they are moving out of the EU.

    I for one don't believe the Chuukese would want to get into getting Communists china to give it what it want. They will still look to the US to give them their own cofa.

    As for FSM supreme court not doing nothing because no one has filed anything yet is also misleading and false. The only reason the supreme court is silent and hasn't done anything is because this is legal according to the constitution of the FSM. Many states in the US have tried to secede but again anf again the supreme court of the US has interjected itself by stating that secession of one of the 50 states is illegal under the US constitution.

    Only the people Chuuk can decide this. Yes or No its up to them to decide their own fate.
  • Snowden, are you that stupid? Why in hell do you technically think that Chuuk would forfeit shares in both trust funds?! Chuuk has been investing its money in them so it must get whatever its shares whenever it demands!!!
  • SerekinNoufich, if you want to resort to calling names then you are the stupid one. You expect to secede without any sort of negative repercussions?

    First of all, the trust fund is the FSM's, Chuuk did not invest its money in it, the Nation did. This trust fund was created for the whole of FSM to utilize as a sustainability platform moving forward.

    If and when Chuuk does vote for secession and the majority of the Chuuk people do vote to secede, shouldn't Chuuk be immediately considered a rogue State therefore basically forfeiting any and all ties to the FSM including its COFA status and any and all funding from the FSM?

  • Iron Youth:

    You state above that "As for FSM supreme court not doing nothing because no one has filed anything yet is also misleading and false. The only reason the supreme court is silent and hasn't done anything is because this is legal according to the constitution of the FSM."

    That statement demonstrates your ignorance of the functions of the court system. Everybody above has tried to convince you, in good faith, that no court can address any issue without a "case in controversy." It is not, as you say without support, that the Court has decided, in secret, that secession is legal. It has not rendered an opinion because no party before the Court has brought a case in controversy addressing the issue of secession.

    And only that. No court can simply take an issue and decide it without a case before it. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but just because you believe that is how the courts act, does not make it so. It might do you some good to go back to studying the three branches of government and the powers of each. In the meantime, you are just wrong.
  • SC, no written words in the constitution makes this illegal. When was the last time chuuk tried voting for this? Years right and then like now the court was silent because the constitution deems it legal.

    Look at Brexit, same thing here. By allowing them to vote, the constitution opens that door to secession, by voting yes they will have one foot out the door of fsm. Chuuk has also history on its side, thousands of years of being on itself out weights a few year of a western treaty of unity.

    By voting yes, won't make chuuk a rogue state. A example of a rogue state is north korea.
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